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Post by darketic on Jul 26, 2018 21:09:27 GMT
Exactly. The contract was breached. And Christina didn't DRAG anyone into it. She stood up for herself when many others could/did not. Others commented and supported her knowing the circumstances and chose to stand up for her. The plaintiff is the one who DRAGGED them into legal proceedings. Except that by making it public, whether it was her intention or not, it turned into a shit storm. I remember that original thread well. Didn't comment, but definitely read it. And I hate to say this, but Christina Gardner was not the complete innocent fawn in all of this. She had more than enough information (anecdotal) from other authors, advising her not to participate, but she still chose to. She might not have know all the details, but she was definitely aware of a lot of what was going on and still chose to participate in the box set. And that's what David and Avatar were getting at. A word of caution for everyone, no one fits perfectly into a box. Often times, it's beneficial for everyone to step back and look at the entire situation instead of just jumping on with the popular rhetoric of one community. I am in no way defending RH or any of her actions, but neither am I absolving anyone else of all their poor decisions because it didn't turn out the way they expected/wanted it to. That's kinda the point. A lot of authors were entangled with RH; a lot of authors signed contracts with her and then realized that what was going on was not something they should associate with. Plenty of authors ended up in that situation because they were only getting info from RH's closed group. Anyone who dared question RH, complain about the results of her services, or opposed her in any way was viciously attacked. Christina is only one of those authors, but she's one of the few that didn't shut up and put up. Lots of authors kept working with RH after the details of RH's behavior started coming out; many of those have cut ties. Look at Jasmine Walt. She was tied up with Hamilton as a co-author in a popular series. It appears that Walt realized that it was not in her best interest to remain in business with Hamilton, and then Hamilton absolutely slaughtered Walt inside one of her private groups (AFTER a legal settlement was reached and both authors had made a public statement about parting ways amicably). I'm sure Walt never thought in a million years that Hamilton would turn on her like that, but that's exactly what RH does. Felician Beasley is another one who was a vocal supporter of Hamilton and participated in ripping Garner's reputation; Beasley eventually saw RH continue the behavior directed at other authors and realised it wasn't just Garner. When Hamilton attacked Walt, she lost an immense amount of credibility, since Walt was someone she gushed rainbows and glitter over for a long time. Fortunately, those screen shots remain out there. And then when she attacked Becky McGraw--well, let's just say that it didn't go the way Hamilton thought it would. McGraw did not take it sitting down. Of course there's one version, a second version, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Doesn't mean those who realised their association with RH was a mistake and tried to get out of it are to blame. Those who publicly made a break are pretty damn brave, considering what they knew the consequence to be. Garner, Walt, Beasley, and Becky McGraw are brave as hell for publicly making their stance known. |
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Post by avatar on Jul 26, 2018 21:50:12 GMT
For some reason, having a hard time quoting and responding so just copied this from Guesty McGuest: And my point was that, like Christine, her supporters were aware of what was going on and still chose to support her. They weren't dragged anywhere by Christine. That's what I was getting at. I have no clue what she knew or didn't know before she got involved with the box set, so can't comment on that. Exactly right. Gardener wanted to game the bestseller tag. Whatever followed doesn't change the fact that her original impulse was to deceive the buying public in order to sell more books. She's not a bestselling author. Her best selling book doesn't crack 100,000. Putting a bestseller tag on her books would be a deceit. She painted herself as an innocent when she posted her dilemma to KBoards. I understand she was in over her head with RH. That can happen when we follow our shadier impulses. Her quest for virtual *hugs* on Kboards only made everything much worse for herself. |
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qirky
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Post by qirky on Jul 26, 2018 22:24:25 GMT
What happened with Becky McGraw?
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 26, 2018 22:28:48 GMT
No one is perfect. If peeps had to be perfect before we could admire them, no one would look up to anyone. The important thing isn't never making any mistakes, ever. It's realizing when you've made them, stopping, turning around, and doing the right and hard thing. Especially when you've got bullies threatening you on one hand, and critics booing from the spectators arena. I fully support Christina in her efforts, and agree with those over in the "hero" camp. Christina, Jasmine Walt, Felicia Beasely, and anyone else who stands up to bullies is a hero of mine.  |
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Post by avatar on Jul 26, 2018 22:52:57 GMT
No one is perfect. If peeps had to be perfect before we could admire them, no one would look up to anyone. The important thing isn't never making any mistakes, ever. It's realizing when you've made them, stopping, turning around, and doing the right and hard thing. Especially when you've got bullies threatening you on one hand, and critics booing from the spectators arena. I fully support Christina in her efforts, and agree with those over in the "hero" camp. Christina, Jasmine Walt, Felicia Beasely, and anyone else who stands up to bullies is a hero of mine. I supported her initially, but then it drifted unproductively and stoked a mob mentality on both sides. It was unfortunate and left nothing but the brute facts on the table. Two people gaming bestseller lists had a falling out. |
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Post by writerbf on Jul 26, 2018 22:55:54 GMT
No one is perfect. If peeps had to be perfect before we could admire them, no one would look up to anyone. The important thing isn't never making any mistakes, ever. It's realizing when you've made them, stopping, turning around, and doing the right and hard thing. Especially when you've got bullies threatening you on one hand, and critics booing from the spectators arena. I fully support Christina in her efforts, and agree with those over in the "hero" camp. Christina, Jasmine Walt, Felicia Beasely, and anyone else who stands up to bullies is a hero of mine. That's what bullies count on. They point the finger of shame, using that to silence people. |
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Post by writeone on Jul 26, 2018 23:47:26 GMT
Interesting. Wasn't Jasmine Walt a partner of sorts for Rebecca Hamilton? Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I thought they were.
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Post by not2esoteric on Jul 27, 2018 1:49:35 GMT
My salad days are far behind me, and I've been a skeptic and cynic as long as I can remember. I'm not a Kboards member, but I've browsed there, off and on, for 6 or 8 months. I've read the thread in question, as well as the the pitch on the funding page. This will be unpopular, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for Christina. Yes, she should have gotten a refund after the contract became null and void, but I have a difficult time believing she was that naive in the first place. Signed a lopsided contract and invested $4k in one go to secure berths in box sets, marketing workshops, and other promotional services/seminars. That amount isn't chump change, although I realize you have to spend money to make money. But, still, that's a lot of money. The reviews of the promoter and her services were glowing. How did that not set off a bullshit detector? I don't care if I'm buying a cocktail shaker, a book, or a flat screen tv, I read negative reviews first. If there aren't any, you better believe I'm skeptical. There were other things that should have set off warning bells. What reputable business model requires mandatory membership in closed or private social media groups for communications? Or payment through Paypal's Friends and Family? Again, what reputable company conducts business that way? She said (it's on the funding page) she was unfamiliar with how Paypal worked and just did what she was told. I don't buy that level of naivety; she's neither a green 20 year old nor a tech challenged 85 year old grandma. This is just an observation, but it seems like a little of both willful ignorance and gullibility was at play. I'm sorry she's going through litigation hell, I can't imagine how physically and emotionally draining it is, and it probably feels like it will never end. And don't misunderstand, I'm in no way siding with Hamilton; that's a black hat, bad actor all the way around and best avoided.
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qirky
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Post by qirky on Jul 27, 2018 2:00:00 GMT
I do think a lot of people aren't very Paypal savvy. I know of one author who still hasn't managed to get an account set up, and they're not a newbie or uneducated by any stretch. We think things we know about are easy, but that's not always the case. In the case of someone who seems to know what they're talking about, I'm afraid many of us just don't question it as cynically as we should. If the expert says something, you think, "Oh, that sounds reasonable." Until you've been burned a few times, and stop trusting anyone. I wish it wasn't so. Anyway I hate to cast aspersions on someone else's lack of knowledge to avoid a certain situation. Frankly, there but for the grace of god go I--involving this and other pitfalls of publishing. Thankfully I've learned enough in time to avoid the worst dangers of the unscrupulous types. But frankly there's a limit to author cynicism. We're dreamers and storytellers and hopeful by nature, or we wouldn't even be trying to get published. A few years ago the truly cynical would have said "Self-publishing? Yeah right! That's a crock!" But lots of authors felt hopeful enough to try.
I think as well there is a mindset that's difficult to overcome for authors in general. The idea of "signing up with an expert, so that all I really have to do is write." It used to be agents (and there are plenty of wolves in sheeps clothing there and always have been). Nowadays for the self-published, it's promoters and experts. So many of us are both hopeful and eager to be helped, that it's really a breeding ground for exploitation. How do you really check the credentials of anyone you just know online? Glowing reviews can mean a lot or nothing at all.
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Post by avatar on Jul 27, 2018 3:09:21 GMT
I think as well there is a mindset that's difficult to overcome for authors in general. The idea of "signing up with an expert, so that all I really have to do is write." It used to be agents (and there are plenty of wolves in sheeps clothing there and always have been). Nowadays for the self-published, it's promoters and experts. So many of us are both hopeful and eager to be helped, that it's really a breeding ground for exploitation. How do you really check the credentials of anyone you just know online? Glowing reviews can mean a lot or nothing at all. My impression is, many Kboarders are not truly creative writers (novelists), but they're competent in grammar and spelling and may have at one point produced marketing copy and been praised for it. But writing isn't in their blood. They're just trying to monetize their writing skills (which don't necessarily translate into a talent for writing fiction). So naturally, they view writing success in terms of marketing success. When I first saw a thread on "stacking promos" I was interested. I followed quite few who posted their results. I bookmarked their books so I could see how well the promotion faired for them down the road. In 90% of the cases, the promoted book responded to the promotion, but once it was over, the book's rank fell as if leaping off a cliff, and none of the author's other books improved evenly slightly in rank. What the promotion accomplished was a frenzy of downloads/sales, but it didn't gain the authors any fans who would read through their back catalog. That's not good. This occurs even after huge BookBub promotions. Bookmark the promos you see in tomorrow's newsletter. Check them six months from now. It's even money they'll be ranking at 500k or higher. In response, there's sort of herd mentality now on KBoards thinking success is all about rapid or frequent release, running a heavy promo, and repeating the process. There are plenty doing this, and their shelves all look more or less the same. The latest book ranking around 80k two weeks after release, and all the rest sitting at 300,000k or even the millions. Naturally, they don't suspect their books are the problem. They just have to get the marketing right. So, yeah. They seek marketing gurus, take courses, spend unwisely, all for naught. It's sad, really. |
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 3:27:32 GMT
Michael-Scott Earle got his Zon account terminated. Reported on reddit and his Facebook group.
Also saw Michael Andrele make a public statement too:
I have no legit information into the reasons for Amazon banning MSE beyond what he has admitted in public. What I have been told from a higher ranking Amazon official (KDP) is that NO banning like this is done without human review.
Period.
You can chose to not believe the Amazon rep's statement, but then (my experience) has said that the ONLY time they are willing to be on-the-record about a comment (such as we don't ban without human review) is because:
1) It's true.
2) Their Lawyers have approved said statement.
3) They are willing to defend that statement in court.
*
I find this statement interesting - he's buddies with MSE but it seems here he's saying Amazon doesn't ban for no reason, a person reviewed it... like he's saying in an oblique way the MSE is guilty of something.
Wonder whether their bromance is gonna be over now? Andrele is building a massive book empire and being in bed with potential cheats is not in his interest.
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qirky
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Post by qirky on Jul 27, 2018 3:32:23 GMT
This is an interesting post. You seem to be suggesting that "truly creative" people write evergreen (aka always selling well) books.
I've not seen that the truly creative always get the audience they deserve, or that the successful authors are always creative. I do agree that fans should hopefully grow after every successful promotion (that promotions are reaching new people who go on and read more by the author and actually follow the author on purpose).
But I don't think there are any truly evergreen authors, indie or traditional. Older books disappear all the time without a trace, unless they're pushed relentlessly or constant new releases bring the author publicity and new fans for their backlist.
While I'm not sure whether we would agree on the definition of creative or not, or what the optimal release schedule might be, I don't think older releases stay evergreen for anyone. Without being pushed hard.
I disagree that it's "sad" for authors to focus on genre fiction. That may not have been what you meant, but if "creative" means "non-genre" than I don't see much point talking about it. Honestly it seems to me that what appeals to readers isn't always creativity, but something about the way an author tells a story, something hard to define like voice. Or maybe a complicated mix of things.
*edit* This is in response to avatar's post, not guestyguest's.
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Post by Guesty McGuest on Jul 27, 2018 3:49:20 GMT
Michael-Scott Earle got his Zon account terminated. Reported on reddit and his Facebook group. Also saw Michael Andrele make a public statement too: I have no legit information into the reasons for Amazon banning MSE beyond what he has admitted in public. What I have been told from a higher ranking Amazon official (KDP) is that NO banning like this is done without human review. Period. You can chose to not believe the Amazon rep's statement, but then (my experience) has said that the ONLY time they are willing to be on-the-record about a comment (such as we don't ban without human review) is because: 1) It's true. 2) Their Lawyers have approved said statement. 3) They are willing to defend that statement in court. * I find this statement interesting - he's buddies with MSE but it seems here he's saying Amazon doesn't ban for no reason, a person reviewed it... like he's saying in an oblique way the MSE is guilty of something. Wonder whether their bromance is gonna be over now? Andrele is building a massive book empire and being in bed with potential cheats is not in his interest. Oh Anderle is definitely distancing himself. Whether or not he's successful will depend on what he might have done before. A terminated account is a very big deal here guys. It's because they were doing something Amazon doesn't want on their storefront. It's not stuffing or bonus content. It's not even wonky formatting. But if that's what you want to believe, then those who have had their accounts terminated have done a great job of hiding their actual bad acts with minor naughty acts that would usually only get a "fix it or else" letter. |
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 4:00:59 GMT
Michael-Scott Earle got his Zon account terminated. Reported on reddit and his Facebook group. Also saw Michael Andrele make a public statement too: I have no legit information into the reasons for Amazon banning MSE beyond what he has admitted in public. What I have been told from a higher ranking Amazon official (KDP) is that NO banning like this is done without human review. Period. You can chose to not believe the Amazon rep's statement, but then (my experience) has said that the ONLY time they are willing to be on-the-record about a comment (such as we don't ban without human review) is because: 1) It's true. 2) Their Lawyers have approved said statement. 3) They are willing to defend that statement in court. * I find this statement interesting - he's buddies with MSE but it seems here he's saying Amazon doesn't ban for no reason, a person reviewed it... like he's saying in an oblique way the MSE is guilty of something. Wonder whether their bromance is gonna be over now? Andrele is building a massive book empire and being in bed with potential cheats is not in his interest. Oh Anderle is definitely distancing himself. Whether or not he's successful will depend on what he might have done before. A terminated account is a very big deal here guys. It's because they were doing something Amazon doesn't want on their storefront. It's not stuffing or bonus content. It's not even wonky formatting. But if that's what you want to believe, then those who have had their accounts terminated have done a great job of hiding their actual bad acts with minor naughty acts that would usually only get a "fix it or else" letter. I think some of the people who were in Hamilton boxsets ended up co-authoring with Andrele. I'd be fucking worried about that connection if I were him. Given how much money MSE was making them and Amazon still banned him I think it shows they'd burn Andrele too if they find anything bad. MSE's attempts to muddy the water with bs about "it was a copyright algorithm" didn't work. And so much for him having friends in Amazon telling him things. That looks like it was a desperate lie. Maybe Andrele is sprinting away from MSE and this is just the first word on it. |
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Post by prolificwriter on Jul 27, 2018 6:53:28 GMT
Interesting. Wasn't Jasmine Walt a partner of sorts for Rebecca Hamilton? Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I thought they were. Yes. They were in deep. They coauthored a lot of books. If she spoke against RH, it wasn’t out of bravery, it was pure self-preservation. She’s also friends with JA Cipriano and has written reviews on Amazon defending him when that whole thing happened where he copied another author’s work. She's also defended MSE recently and his TM nonsense over at the 20booksto50k group. I have no idea if she’s “legit” now, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if her account got terminated. |
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 12:59:08 GMT
So I've been idly checking past authors in Rebecca Hamilton's box sets, seeing if they're banned, what happened. Came across Felicia Beasley. She was in Myths and Magic (a RH box set). Used to post under her name on kboards but after the SHTF with RH changed to HopelessFanatic www.kboards.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=76246Had a trilogy, website, twitter account - all went dead around May 2017 shortly after she got into arguments on kboards defending Hamilton. She's still posting about advertising (for a client). She's a moderator over at 20Booksto50K (something she never mentions on kboards) Banned from Amazon - I don't think so. But I think she abandoned her real name when things went bad with Rebecca Hamilton. Maybe she's still writing or she gave up. I'm fairly sure she went over to writing Reverse Harem. Wonder how many other authors in RH boxsets abandoned their name or pen-name after things went bad with Hamilton? Beasley's books are down everywhere. Unpublished them. Can't find if she ever republished them. Seemed like people enjoyed them so I wonder what went wrong so bad she didn't leave them up to make some money. I suspect she knew she was fucked for using RH services, like book blasts, and knew what they were (pet readers in a private group) so she likely took down all her books to avoid Amazon banning her. |
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 13:18:44 GMT
I think Jasmine Walt is fucked too - was in Magic and Mayhem, a Rebecca Hamilton boxset. Used her services extensively.
Co-authored three titles with Hamilton (all unpublished now). Co-authored Ghosts and Grudges (The Shaman Queen's Harem Book 1) with JA Cipriano end of 2017 (unpublished). Co-authored with Connor Kressley (in deep with RH). Is writing in reverse harem, where a bunch of authors were recently banned.
I think banned by the end of the year.
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 13:31:50 GMT
I really gotta stop but shit things like this aged badly: www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,235599.msg3280736.html#msg3280736 Jasmine Walt organizing with Rebecca Hamilton some book blast bullshit where fifty authors all buy each others books on a certain date on Nook. I'm sure this was just a thing to get Jasmine 50 sales on Nook on a certain day for some title to push the "letters". |
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Post by guestyguest on Jul 27, 2018 14:15:21 GMT
So I've been idly checking past authors in Rebecca Hamilton's box sets, seeing if they're banned, what happened. Came across Felicia Beasley. She was in Myths and Magic (a RH box set). Used to post under her name on kboards but after the SHTF with RH changed to HopelessFanatic www.kboards.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=76246Had a trilogy, website, twitter account - all went dead around May 2017 shortly after she got into arguments on kboards defending Hamilton. She's still posting about advertising (for a client). She's a moderator over at 20Booksto50K (something she never mentions on kboards) Banned from Amazon - I don't think so. But I think she abandoned her real name when things went bad with Rebecca Hamilton. Maybe she's still writing or she gave up. I'm fairly sure she went over to writing Reverse Harem. Wonder how many other authors in RH boxsets abandoned their name or pen-name after things went bad with Hamilton? Beasley's books are down everywhere. Unpublished them. Can't find if she ever republished them. Seemed like people enjoyed them so I wonder what went wrong so bad she didn't leave them up to make some money. I suspect she knew she was fucked for using RH services, like book blasts, and knew what they were (pet readers in a private group) so she likely took down all her books to avoid Amazon banning her. Gonna quote myself because fuck it - Beasley is KV Adair (public info on goodreads, not outing anyone). Give this Amazon code a google: B07DN1BKLC - also look at B07DN1LMQQ It's for Queen of Fire: A Reverse Harem Fantasy (Her Fae Princes Book 1), which was due for release September 8th, 2018. Book 2 was due out on same day also. Both gone. Wiped out from Amazon and everywhere else too. Two reverse harem titles. When you click on the cached links you can see the also-boughts include Jasmine Walt. My guess - a lot of RH authors got banned, she freaked and took her books down. Wonder if she was using a service that got others banned? |
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Post by avatar on Jul 27, 2018 15:38:41 GMT
This is an interesting post. You seem to be suggesting that "truly creative" people write evergreen (aka always selling well) books. I've not seen that the truly creative always get the audience they deserve, or that the successful authors are always creative. I do agree that fans should hopefully grow after every successful promotion (that promotions are reaching new people who go on and read more by the author and actually follow the author on purpose). But I don't think there are any truly evergreen authors, indie or traditional. Older books disappear all the time without a trace, unless they're pushed relentlessly or constant new releases bring the author publicity and new fans for their backlist. While I'm not sure whether we would agree on the definition of creative or not, or what the optimal release schedule might be, I don't think older releases stay evergreen for anyone. Without being pushed hard. I disagree that it's "sad" for authors to focus on genre fiction. That may not have been what you meant, but if "creative" means "non-genre" than I don't see much point talking about it. Honestly it seems to me that what appeals to readers isn't always creativity, but something about the way an author tells a story, something hard to define like voice. Or maybe a complicated mix of things. *edit* This is in response to avatar's post, not guestyguest's. I wasn't referring to genre writers or otherwise. I think evergreen success for any author depends on a strong, unique voice and excellent storytelling skills. When a new reader comes along, attracted by a new release, they go on to gobble up the author's entire shelf. A new release thus invigorates the entire back catalog. You can see it by looking at an author's Author Central. If their latest book sits at 30k, and their next book sits at 500k, chances are their new readers aren't working their way through the author's shelf. If you see a shelf with ten books and they all rank below 100k, say a spread from 10k to 100k, the newer releases are bringing new fans to the older releases. I view this as an evergreen success for the older titles, powered by new releases and a strong writing talent (look at Rosalind James' shelf for an example. She publishes two or three times a year). If an author gets no read-through, they're entirely dependent on new releases to produce a revenue stream. They might spike their graph with a promotion, but it produces no long-term effect. It could be their choice of subject matter lacks an adequate audience, but more likely it's the quality of their storytelling that falls short. They can make up for it with splashy covers and blurbs and heavy ad spending, but it doesn't produce a lasting result. One could quibble. "Evergreen" should mean a single book does well forever with or without new releases pumping in new fans. Few indie or traditionally published authors ever achieve that kind of success. You have to keep adding to your fan base or keep promoting. The difference for an "evergreen" author when it comes to promotion is, a single new fan could mean selling ten or more books (depending on the author's shelf), which means a terrific ROI. But an author with an unexceptional, generic product will sell only the promoted book, and if it's in KU, there's a good chance it'll never be read through. |
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DD
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Post by DD on Jul 27, 2018 16:32:54 GMT
I really gotta stop but shit things like this aged badly: www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,235599.msg3280736.html#msg3280736 Jasmine Walt organizing with Rebecca Hamilton some book blast bullshit where fifty authors all buy each others books on a certain date on Nook. I'm sure this was just a thing to get Jasmine 50 sales on Nook on a certain day for some title to push the "letters". I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised by all the people jumping on that little circle-jerk. Notice only one person asked how the 50 purchases were guaranteed. |
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Post by possiblyderanged on Jul 27, 2018 16:45:38 GMT
We can't see another author's Author Central. All we can see is what's on a book's sales page, or their author page.
As to the recent stuff about various writers who had been associated with Rebecca Hamilton, it seems that these genres at least are affected:
reverse harem
litRPG
other romance genres, likely contemporary romance
UF
That's a lot of genres these people have had their nasty fingers in. Not surprising since it seems these are the "hot" genres, with fewer authors in them for the most part. Easier to rank with less sales/borrows and less ad money. It was getting harder in most romance genres and UF, with all the .99 books and huge ad budgets needed.
Whatever happens, indie publishing will be better for it.
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Post by possiblyderanged on Jul 27, 2018 16:53:06 GMT
I really gotta stop but shit things like this aged badly: www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,235599.msg3280736.html#msg3280736 Jasmine Walt organizing with Rebecca Hamilton some book blast bullshit where fifty authors all buy each others books on a certain date on Nook. I'm sure this was just a thing to get Jasmine 50 sales on Nook on a certain day for some title to push the "letters". The reason they were doing this on Nook was so that Amazon wouldn't catch them at it. B4B, AKA "buy for buy" is against TOS. It probably is on B&N as well, but I don't thing they police some things as well as they should. |
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Post by davidvandyke on Jul 27, 2018 21:26:48 GMT
What Christina did was idiotic. Not only did she endanger her case by taking it to a public forum, she dragged Stinnett and a couple others into the mess and had the gall to seek sympathy for her self-inflicted woes (in the form of virtual *hugs*). No one forced her to sign any contracts (caveat emptor and all that). Your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Like many, she was caught by someone who pulled dirty tricks and then turned the blame on others. Christina actually took that crap from RH for a long time, as did others. She was within her rights to talk about her situation, as were others.
She didn't drag anyone else into this, Rebecca Hamilton did. Lay the blame at her door, where it rightfully belongs.
The embedded quotes kinda make it look like I agree with "Avatar" but I don't. In fact, the opposite, mostly. I think going public-ish was overall a smart move. |
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Post by davidvandyke on Jul 27, 2018 21:28:29 GMT
Exactly. The contract was breached. And Christina didn't DRAG anyone into it. She stood up for herself when many others could/did not. Others commented and supported her knowing the circumstances and chose to stand up for her. The plaintiff is the one who DRAGGED them into legal proceedings. She might not have know all the details, but she was definitely aware of a lot of what was going on and still chose to participate in the box set. And that's what David and Avatar were getting at. No, I was not saying that. Avatar was, disagreeing with me. These embedded quotes can give the wrong impression sometimes. |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 27, 2018 23:24:22 GMT
No, I was not saying that. Avatar was, disagreeing with me. These embedded quotes can give the wrong impression sometimes. If you delete everything in between the first and last quote boxes it will just quote the one person whose post you clicked on. |
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Post by possiblyderanged on Jul 28, 2018 13:40:39 GMT
Yes, they can. It's tricky sometimes to delete stuff you don't want, and end up with the wrong bits. Done it myself a few times, but luckily I caught it and fixed it. |
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Post by writeone on Jul 29, 2018 0:14:02 GMT
Guestyguest, thanks for the info.
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