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Post by dormouse on Feb 4, 2021 0:22:15 GMT
Had a look at bookbub today and had a look at a book that read badly enough for me to look it up. The publisher is most often accused on the internet of being a vanity. Being accused on one of the pages of writing fake reviews that claimed to be from BRW writers. Sublime Book Reviews seems the same business.
Author had a previous book, apparently an award finalist. Wishing Shelf. Pay to enter: seemed legit enough until I compared the number of entries with the number of finalists. Looks as if they sell reviews too.
Getting to the point where actually legit feels like an endangered species. I suppose it's not surprising when many writers have jobs which allow them to throw money at promotion. I wish they'd spend it on a decent editor instead.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Feb 4, 2021 2:50:54 GMT
That's what happens when authors are lazy and don't do their research - they get taken advantage of! When you're new you don't know anything, and you don't know what-you-don't-know. This world is full of unethical predators looking to take advantage of excited baby-authors with their wide-eyed-innocence and seemingly endless pockets.
If you've never published before, take a few months to learn the industry before shelling out the dough to the hungry wolf with the shiny promises.
Or just sign up to a reputable forum and ask questions. There's plenty of experienced folks out there who will tell you the truth, even if when it's hard to hear. Of course, if you refuse to listen, no one but Daddy-Experience will get through to you. And by then it will be too late!
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Post by dormouse on Feb 4, 2021 11:44:25 GMT
That's what happens when authors are lazy and don't do their research - they get taken advantage of! Yes. But ... he's written two books. He got a bookbub. Goodreads average over 4 on one of them, near it on another. He may have stock of physical books to give friends (at one stage their contract required buying a stack - that was the money they took directly). Has some book sales, though unlikely to be profitable. Spent money, but lots of writers lose money with ads, and this is only a side gig for him. And he outsourced production and marketing preserving a lot of his life. Presumably happy with it since he's done it twice. Which is a pretty good outcome from a book that seemed so particularly bad that I felt a need to peer under the stone. I just wish some part of the process had made the book better. It's not a good system for readers. Or most writers. |
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Post by writeway on Feb 6, 2021 4:59:38 GMT
As someone who has had many Bookbubs, I blame this on Bookbub because their vetting has really gone downhill. Last year they gave a big time KU scammer a featured deal and other authors told BB "she" was a scammer after the fact. Many authors were upset that BB had allowed a scammer to promote on their site. They used to be so up on stuff like this but more and more it's like BB is just taking money. I don't even submit to them anymore because the deals haven't been as good as they used to be. But, yeah, I doubt they do this big-time vetting they claim to do because I've seen books on there that were nowhere near quality lately. Makes me think BB is now more concerned with all the money they can get instead of sharing quality books. They do nothing but push their ads now and beg authors to try them.. They also cater more to trade published books now. I'd say like everything else, BB is probably struggling a little financially because as I said on this forum in another thread a few days ago, authors are hurting financially right now due to what's happening in the world, and when authors hurt the first thing they do is stop paying for marketing and it seems like BB has gotten a little less picky lately for some reason.
Just my take.
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Post by writeway on Feb 6, 2021 5:03:10 GMT
As for writers working with vanity presses or getting scammed, I stopped feeling sorry for them years ago. If you are too lazy to Google a company before you submit to them then you deserve what you get. No excuse for people to still be getting gypped with all the info there is on the Internet. Even if you are too lazy to Google, then at least ask around before going into business with someone. Back in 2005 and earlier, I gave newbies the benefit of the doubt but it's 2021 now so...no. No one should be ignorant with the amount of info at their fingertips.
This is just like folks who still do business with Rebecca Hamilton, Books Butterfly, Tate Publishing or these other shady companies. I'm talking about promoters and wannabe publishers. A second of Googling would tell them all they need to know. Then you have some folks who don't wanna listen to the warnings. I've warned folks before only to have them work with the place anyway then come back whining when they get scammed. So I sure as hell ain't crying for 'em.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Feb 6, 2021 15:50:31 GMT
Desperation, greed, and just needing to be practical and put the money first, seems to affect everyone at some point. The problem with the first two is they can, often, end up costing people more money in the end. And also, some people are actually really bad at googling stuff. They just don't know the correct search terms to use, and so sometimes googling can leave them more confused than ever, or left with a wrong impression due to consuming incorrect information. Especially, if they don't google for long enough. Or maybe they're really distracted and don't read properly. Or perhaps they have a learning disability that causes their reading comprehension to be low.
But then also -- greed, and thinking, "well, this company may be breaking rules, but maybe they can make me rich, so I think I'll risk it."
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Post by dormouse on Feb 8, 2021 1:01:06 GMT
I don't have clear views. Vanity is a modern term for a practice that used to be a normal path even for famous authors. The world of new writers is full of more experienced people looking to take money from them - courses, editors, formatters, marketers, cover designers, advertisers. All ostensibly offer a product, but how many writers actually make the cost back in extra profit? Maybe it's a question of whether the offer is made with good intentions or ill; with expertise or the dangerous little knowledge.
Not that I see any possible value from vanity presses today with ebooks and PoD instead of contracts with printers.
I'm a little more intrigued by the Wishing Shelf. The stated entry costs aren't huge compared to many marketing options, though I've no idea what they can add up to with full whistles and bells. Were they the source of most of the reviews? Is there a link with BRW? I'd quite like to do a deep dive into what's really going on, but it doesn't seem interesting enough for me to commit the time. Even if I had that much time to spare. I might try to think of a shallow first step when I'm procrastinating and bored. Might.
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