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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jun 24, 2020 14:20:29 GMT
When writing fiction, do you feel a need to pass on your personal ethical and moral beliefs through the text, and the world building, and how certain characters are punished and rewarded? Or would you rather focus on telling a good story, and allowing the characters to be whoever or whatever they need to be for the plot to work?
For myself, it depends on what I'm writing. In my erotica I definitely don't write according to my moral or ethical beliefs. I write according to the tropes of the kinks. Erotica is for turning people on, and people's sexual fantasies aren't always respectful. I think that sometimes readers need a safe place to explore this side of themselves without judgment.
But then in TUOK, I am trying to balance being respectful of my readers with allowing my characters to be who they are. And I want to try and really dig down deep and explore belief systems and worldviews, especially ones predicated upon dehumanizing others. For me, it's a way to try and understand. And so I'll have characters on both side of the divide, and will try to honestly depict them all without authorial judgment. But there will be reader judgment. (Assuming there are readers.) And as authors there isn't much we can do to prevent that.
Many viewers of Disney's *star wars* Trilogy were upset about Reylo because it went against their own moral beliefs about how men should treat women, and about how abusive men should be punished/rewarded for their actions. While other viewers simply felt the two actors were hot together and enjoyed their dynamic. I found this especially interesting since one gal I know who was really into Reylo was hugely against Mon El and Supergirl being together in Supergirl, for the same reasons that peeps were against Reylo. And Mon El was nowhere close to being as abusive as Kylo was to Rey. So I think shipping can be a very personal and situational thing. And then others who don't ship the same way they do will judge you, the same way they judged the characters. Because when you feel that something is horrible and disgusting, it can be hard to separate that feeling from others who claim to love the thing you are so squicked out by.
So I guess when writing we not only have to decide how we as authors feel about the moral implications of what we're writing, but how our readers will feel. And no, we can't make everybody like us, or agree with us, and no matter what someone, somewhere is going to be offended. I think all we can do is choose who we are okay offending and who we aren't okay offending. For example, some people are offended by cussing and others fucking love it.
Where do you stand on these issues?
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Post by writeway on Jun 25, 2020 20:48:15 GMT
No, I don't force my thoughts or ethics on my characters or in my books at all. I feel like I am just the vehicle that drives the story. The characters, plot, etc come alive on its own. I also don't feel like an author can be judged on what their characters do because how a person writes a character doesn't mean that's how the author is.
I have seen authors do what you mention though and I don't like it. They'll sneak in their political or religious opinions in their work and you can tell it's not just for the story but because it's their ideology. It comes off as preachy, etc. On the other hand, I do my best not to offend as an AUTHOR, not but when it comes to a character. Again, a character isn't real so their beliefs, etc are or the story. Has nothing to do with the person I am.
So you will never see me doing anything in a preachy way or forcing my opinions or beliefs in my books for the heck of it. I just create characters and however they turn out is how they turn out. At the end of the day, it's a story.
I don't intend to offend on a personal note but if a character offends I have to say I am fine with it because I look at it like this, the reader should know better than to judge an author by what he or she writes. That's not fair. So if I have a character who hates Christians and some reader is offended by that, tough. Why? Again, the reader should have more sense than to take a fictional character that seriously and certainly should know better than to judge an author (who you do NOT know personally) based on a character they create. I say this all the time, "WE ARE NOT OUR CHARACTERS".
If I am writing a bunch of Christian-hating tweets or going on rants about Christians on Facebook then that is a big difference. That's ME doing that and being offensive. But me writing a character who bashes Christians or anyone else is a character I created. It is not who I am.
So I feel we have every right to judge public figures such as authors based on how they act in real life but it's not fair to judge them on characters they write. The same with filmmakers. The same with actors and actresses. Some fans are so pitiful they will judge an actor or actress based off a character they played. UNREAL.
So there are definitely times to be offended and times not to be. I am not going to change my work or how I approach it for some snowflake who can't tell the difference between a fiction character and the author. No. I don't let anyone dictate what I write. Never have and never will. The day I do that is the day I stop writing.
Again, not saying I purposely set off to offend but if my character or a plot in my book does that, so be it. It's ENTERTAINMENT. I wonder sometimes if folks just read books or look at movies for the purpose to complain.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jun 25, 2020 23:58:52 GMT
I think that's a sensible way to look at it. I think if you wrote a story where every good character was an atheist and every evil/stupid character was a Christian, then it would be fair for readers to assume that the author doesn't think very well of Christians. *haha* But if it's just one character and it's shown through deep characterization why they personally don't like religious people, and they aren't shown to be right or wrong. Then it's obviously just the way that character is, which is cool. But shallow characterization or shallow reading can lead to hasty incorrect conclusions.
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Post by writeway on Jun 26, 2020 3:42:27 GMT
I think that's a sensible way to look at it. I think if you wrote a story where every good character was an atheist and every evil/stupid character was a Christian, then it would be fair for readers to assume that the author doesn't think very well of Christians. *haha* But if it's just one character and it's shown through deep characterization why they personally don't like religious people, and they aren't shown to be right or wrong. Then it's obviously just the way that character is, which is cool. But shallow characterization or shallow reading can lead to hasty incorrect conclusions. Yep and I have to say as a black female, I've come across a lot of offensive things written about minorities due to either the author's ignorance or their sly way of trying to push their racist ideals on readers. For example, authors who every time they write about a black person they are from the ghetto or a criminal or every time they write about a Hispanic they are illegal. I remember an author who in recent years was blasted for still calling Asians "orientals". Where have you been in the last 30 years that you didn't know that's offensive? Course they knew! It's a dog whistle and sadly there are some "authors" out here using fiction to push their racist, homophobic ideologies. So to your point, you can tell if an author is pushing an agenda. It will be obvious and you will see it over and over. I avoid those authors. I don't want to be preached to and I don't want to read a book full of the author's moral, political, or religious beliefs "disguised" as a character. But if something I might not like is genuine to the character, fine. The good thing about readers is many of them will blast an author in a minute for pushing racism, homophobia, or anything else in order to offend. So in my view it's a surefire way for an author to flush their career down the toilet because readers nor the public will stand for it. I've seen authors use, "freedom of speech" to protect their racism but just like they have their freedom to write that mess, we have our freedom to blast them for it. |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jun 26, 2020 4:03:01 GMT
I think that's a sensible way to look at it. I think if you wrote a story where every good character was an atheist and every evil/stupid character was a Christian, then it would be fair for readers to assume that the author doesn't think very well of Christians. *haha* But if it's just one character and it's shown through deep characterization why they personally don't like religious people, and they aren't shown to be right or wrong. Then it's obviously just the way that character is, which is cool. But shallow characterization or shallow reading can lead to hasty incorrect conclusions. Yep and I have to say as a black female, I've come across a lot of offensive things written about minorities due to either the author's ignorance or their sly way of trying to push their racist ideals on readers. For example, authors who every time they write about a black person they are from the ghetto or a criminal or every time they write about a Hispanic they are illegal. I remember an author who in recent years was blasted for still calling Asians "orientals". Where have you been in the last 30 years that you didn't know that's offensive? Course they knew! It's a dog whistle and sadly there are some "authors" out here using fiction to push their racist, homophobic ideologies. So to your point, you can tell if an author is pushing an agenda. It will be obvious and you will see it over and over. I avoid those authors. I don't want to be preached to and I don't want to read a book full of the author's moral, political, or religious beliefs "disguised" as a character. But if something I might not like is genuine to the character, fine. Hatred and privileged ignorance pops up everywhere, ruining everything it touches. There can't be any excuse for it. The best the offending author can do is apologize and never do it again. And everyone in the world they've offended has the right to call them on it, loudly and in whatever tone they choose. The injured, aggrieved tones of the offenders is the worst part. Learn and grow. There is no defense. And if you want to preach, write a sermon or do a youtube video of you in your car ignorantly ranting. One time I read a book that was supposed to be a thriller of some sort, but the whole thing was two characters talking about how evil abortion was, until the very end when they break into the hospital and save all the babies that were born alive that were going to be murdered, or something like that. It was a very, very bad book. I even agreed with the preaching back then, and I still thought the writer went overboard. |
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Post by writeway on Jun 26, 2020 23:46:25 GMT
I agree. The sad thing is only a small percentage are actually ignorant. You can tell when an author didn't mean to offend because they will apologize and even try to change what was so offensive but others double down. The ones I mentioned before that repeat this stuff in all their books. You can definitely tell when it's the author's beliefs and not the character. I am all for people who make a genuine mistake and own up to it but so many authors do this on purpose thinking they are clever. I call them cowards because it's obvious they use their books to push an agenda and are too afraid to do it without hiding behind a character.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jun 27, 2020 4:49:12 GMT
I agree. The sad thing is only a small percentage are actually ignorant. You can tell when an author didn't mean to offend because they will apologize and even try to change what was so offensive but others double down. The ones I mentioned before that repeat this stuff in all their books. You can definitely tell when it's the author's beliefs and not the character. I am all for people who make a genuine mistake and own up to it but so many authors do this on purpose thinking they are clever. I call them cowards because it's obvious they use their books to push an agenda and are too afraid to do it without hiding behind a character. Cowards, for sure. When someone makes a "mistake" over and over again it's not a mistake. And like you said, "the truly ignorant apologize and change, while the committed bigots double down, argue, defend themselves, and just dig a deeper hole to sink down into. Can you name any particular agregious examples? When I was a kid I read all the time, primarily all kids books, and then as a young adult/new adult I read a lot of Christian romance before I became empowered enough to control what tv shows and movies I watched, and then I kind of switched over. So as an adult I could name a lot more cinematic examples than I could from books. About the only books I'm aware of are ones that went viral due to bad publicity. Like the two children's picture books about the happy slave children. I used to like a lot of old children's books from the early 1900s up to the 50s or so, and a lot of those were quite racist, though as a kid I didn't recognize it. |
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