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Post by dormouse on Oct 20, 2019 12:00:29 GMT
I was browsing the Inspector Danilov series. I noticed that 1 & 2 are in KU, while 3 & 4 are wide. Assuming that this is a strategy, I'm not convinced. KU readers finish 1 & 2 and then have to pay up, or wait and hope. I suppose they might pay, but given the price (£1.99 or $2.99) and book length (approx 300 pages), I would have thought the downside was bigger than the upside. Wide readers only have 3 or 4. Surely this will reduce wide sales.
My reflection is that I now have time to write, but I am procrastinating.
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Post by robertlcollins on Oct 20, 2019 13:08:31 GMT
I go as wide as I can. Ebooks and paper, and if I could, audio and hardback.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 20, 2019 16:59:50 GMT
Yeah, I wouldn't think that was a wise strategy, putting half a series in KU and the other half, wide. I've seen peeps on Koards ask about doing this over the years. The strategy is to try and get the best of both worlds. But I would think it would be better to have one full series in KU. And one full series wide. Splitting them up is a terrible customer experience. I used to be wide, but now I'm all in with KU. I'm not sure yet if it was a good decision or not. I get reads every single day. I earn way less on each read than I would per read. I'm at $50 for the month though which is high end for me. So I don't seem to be losing any money, which is weird. And the daily kachings are pleasant. Even when they're only for 1 cent.
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Post by dormouse on Oct 20, 2019 17:35:53 GMT
I can understand launching in KU and then switching wide. I've seen no evidence that it works, but I understand the logic. This could be a starting wide and then switching to KU (I don't know the history). I don't think I would try that myself, although I do understand switching to KU if you think it might pay better than wide (or reduce the effort needed). I like seeing what people try, though I'm often left wondering what the strategies are.
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Post by writeway on Oct 20, 2019 19:27:22 GMT
Wide author here and you couldn't pay me to go into KU.
Go wide or go KU. Some authors do both but makes no sense because the KU readers and wide readers are totally different. Many wide readers don't even read KU books because much of what is in KU is written according to what KU readers like. Wide readers tend to like different kinds of books. I'm a wide writer and wide reader.
Also, you will piss readers off. I am a wide reader. I am not a KU subscriber nor do I buy books in KU. I don't even buy books on Amazon anymore. I buy ebooks from B&N. Amazon is a mess. I can barely stand to look at my own product pages on there let alone browsing for something I like to read. The categories are a junk pit, the so-called bestselling charts a fradulent joke, no thanks. I would rather go where I can easily find books and they are where they belong. Back to my point about pissing readers off. Say I stumbled across a permafree book or something on B&N and I want to read the rest of the series and it's only on Amazon. I'm not reading the rest and I'll probably blast you in a review for putting a free book 1 somewhere and the readers can't buy the rest there. You might think, "Oh, they can just buy it on Amazon." Wrong. Most wide readers DO NOT buy books from Amazon. That's why they are considered the "wide" audience. They have their favorite retailers and they are not Amazon. Another reason they wouldn't buy the KU books is out of principle. They will be pissed that the author had the nerve to put a book permafree on other retailers but then try to gouge wide readers and make us pay for the entire series when the KU folks get it free? AND on top of that they got the permafree book too??? No. They didn't pay for jack! Just think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you be pissed wondering why YOU had to pay for something and subscribers don't especially when the author teased you with a freebie on another site? You've lost a reader, and another, and another. Customers look at that stuff and they don't like it. You can't price gouge one segment of readers then give another the series free and expect the other to support.
On the flip side, the majority of KU readers don't buy books. Period. People wanna say they do but many don't. That's why they are in KU. So they don't have to spend any money! Why would they pay 9 dollars for a subscription to get all the free books they could ask for if they are going to also buy? The ones who do buy only buy trade-published books. They will spend money for those but use KU for indie books. Good luck thinking you are going to get someone from KU to BUY the rest of a series. It's the same thing, you will get them hooked , they see the rest isn't free for them to gobble up and they will get beyond pissed.
Nah. Be either all-in or all-out and have a plan for either to give yourself the best shot at being successful.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by writeway on Oct 20, 2019 19:41:35 GMT
I can understand launching in KU and then switching wide. I've seen no evidence that it works, but I understand the logic. This could be a starting wide and then switching to KU (I don't know the history). I don't think I would try that myself, although I do understand switching to KU if you think it might pay better than wide (or reduce the effort needed). I like seeing what people try, though I'm often left wondering what the strategies are. Starting off in KU and then going wide makes no sense to me. Never did. I can understand going into KU or going wide down the line if circumstances change but to start out saying you are going into KU and then go wide off the bat? You are hurting yourself because whatever momentum you got on Amazon, you're gonna lose once you leave KU. Second, it's hard as hell to build something wide and you gotta be committed so it's best to start off with a new release just like you would in KU. Going from KU to wide especially won't help if you write things that fit KU better. I've heard authors saying this but never heard it working. I would never start wide and go to KU unless I wasn't selling wide. Thankfully I am and don't need KU. But, if I had momentum on the other sites, it would be dumb as hell for me to mess up all that hard work (just to go into KU, why?) to where I make less than a penny a page. I can sell books HIGHER on other retailers than I do Amazon. On B&N I can make THREE dollars in royalty off of each book. I make way more off one sale on the other sites than I do do a sell on Amazon because of their royalty rate and because Amazon readers like cheaper books. I can charge 6.99 or something for an ebook and it will move at B&N, no problem. Try that at Amazon for a book outside of KU and it's almost impossible for most indies to move anything higher than 3.99. KU is a risk if you are doing well wide because you give up your wide earnings and you can't pinpoint how well you'd do in KU. It's a guess until you get in it. You could make 100,000 page reads a month or 10. You never know. So you've pulled your books off places where you made money just to sample KU? As I said, why? Again, I can understand switching later on just because you feel you need to but I'm talking about, I don't get it as a strategy to go into this saying you will start off in KU then go wide. I just don't see how that benefits you. It's not like being in KU has anything to do with furthering your success being wide and visa versa. When you are wide and go into KU, you kill any success you had when you were wide so if you go back to being wide, you gotta build momentum again and it's even harder. Also, wide readers don't trust people who jump in and out of KU. People think they don't notice? Yes, they do. They will see your books and go, "Oh, I'm not buying her books. Every time I buy one and try to find another her catalog disappears." What does that say? It tells the reader not to trust the author. This is why it's so hard to build anything wide and even harder if you go into KU and try to come back. Another thing, I just got my 8th Bookbub. It's hard as heck to get Bookbubs in KU because they favor wide books. It can happen, but it's hard. Bookbub is very important to wide authors especially because it's how we juice things on other retailers.
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Post by writeway on Oct 20, 2019 19:48:45 GMT
I know an author who is wide who has been saying she is going into KU now because her sales have dried up. She seems to think switching is the answer but I could give her tons of advice as to why her books aren't selling. Bad covers, bad branding, etc. Yet she wants to act like it's being wide that's the issue. No. Sometimes it's the books that's the problem. I can't tell you how many authors struggle wide especially and go into KU and end up doing no better or worse. Sometimes the author has to take a good long look at their work and not think that just because wide didn't do well it's the other retailers or readers that's the issue. No. Sometimes it's your books. Sometimes it's you didn't market well enough or not enough. Sometimes it's that you didn't research wide enough to get to know how the retailers work. Every retailer is different. Now, I'm not saying that switching can't sometimes be the answer but many people who switch due to lack of success through one outlet end up the same on the other. KU is no magic bullet and Wide isn't either. I've also seen this a lot from KU authors going wide because their page reads dropped. Uh, I also have to say if someone is finding it hard to make waves in KU where they are giving books away then it's a big problem with the books. Going wide is not going to help because wide readers are ten times pickier than readers in KU so if you can't please readers who get the books for free, why do you think your books will do better wide? I just wanted to make that point because all the time people switch to one from the other as if that's the answer when Stevie Wonder could see there is an issue with their books or a lack of marketing, etc. Marketing is another thing. Some authors go into KU thinking they can just sit back and cruise up "bestseller" lists and not market. ROFL! Wow. KU authors have to market more than wide authors and spending tons of money on AMS just to be seen in the store. Good luck with not marketing.
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dmayo
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by dmayo on Oct 21, 2019 17:42:19 GMT
I recently de-listed my three novels off of Amazon, then turned around and published wide with Draft2Digital.
I am now in the process of creating paperbacks for all and I chose Amazon for that.
Should I have used some other print-on-demand service? D2D has an "in beta" printing service, but I did not want to chance that until the were full blown.
I would love some comments on eBook wide + Amazon paperbacks.
Thank you.
David
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 22, 2019 1:20:24 GMT
dmayo I'm still not sure why you unpublished from amazon just to go wide. You can still publish through KDP and be wide, as long as you're not in select. Having your ebook and paperback both through KDP allows easy linking, which makes the ebook more attractive. But since your ebooks are through D2D it would make the most sense to me to do your paperbacks through them, as well. But even with your paperbacks on amazon you can still also create D2D paperbacks, since dead tree books cannot be exclusive. But I understand not wanting to make the effort if you're unsure if it will be worth it. But trying things for yourself is the best way to figure out how well it will work for you. Not that hearing others experiences isn't awesome. It's one of my favorite parts about forums. But every author is unique, their books are unique, and their experiences will be unique, as well. To a certain extent, anyway. I've only done KDP paper so far since I was too lazy to try out D2D for paper, but I'm trying to get into puzzle books, so I will likely give it a go. I want to do lulu, as well, because they have more options than trade paperback. And sell on my own website. Not being lazy is a good thing, I am trying to remind myself. I have only sold one paper book, so far. I don't have very many out. And my covers are horrendous due to cover image issues + hating paper books and not caring. Ebooks are soooo much easier in every way, and they sell way better, too. But not always. It depends on the genre/niche. Some readers still prefer paper. But I think generally ebooks will always outsell paper. I'm wondering what ones advertising options are if they distribute to amazon through D2D? Do you have any? Sure, there's always Facebook ads and BookBub. But I'm not sure if you can still use on-site advertising or not?
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dmayo
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by dmayo on Oct 22, 2019 3:18:12 GMT
K'Sennia,
I failed to mention that I am also e-published on Amazon via D2D, so I still have a e-presence there. I had to de-list from Amazon because I was Kindle Select on everything. As I said, I did not want to use a beta process for creating my paperbacks, so D2D was out. Also, I tried utilizing the free PDF conversion they offer that is supposedly printer ready. It was not. In fact, it was error-prone and entirely unsatisfactory. I love D2D for wide eBooks. I used Amazon for creating my paperbacks and the process was smooth and, for the most part, easy.
The only thing I can't figure out so far, is if I can link the Amazon created paperback with the D2D eBook. Haven't found an answer to that and Amazon says that both must be active for at least a week. My first paperback is active beginning tomorrow (Tuesday.) They also state that the details must be the same. I don't know which details they are speaking of, the content, the summary, the author's bio...? I sure hope I can link them.
In about 4 days, I will hold in my hands my first actual book. That will be sweet! Just pulled the trigger on my second paperback as well. Have to wait awhile on that one.
I would say that within about 3 weeks, I will have my three novels e-published (already done) and their corresponding paperbacks published. Then, finally, I can continue to write on my fourth novel, which I am itching to get back to.
Thank you for your response, K'Sennia.
David
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 22, 2019 4:05:07 GMT
dmayo You don't have to delist from amazon to get out of select. You just have to wait for your 90 day term to expire and be sure to untick the automatic enrollment box. Even if you delist your book, you're still supposed to wait until your select term expires before publishing elsewhere. But it's no big deal. I just wanted to make sure you knew that. It sounds like amazon will link your d2d book, that's good to know! By details they mean, the cover, the title, the sub title, the author name, every detail listed on your amazon page for ebook and paperback must be the same on both. If your ebook has a sub-title that isn't on the paperback the linking would be rejected. Or if you had words on the paperback that weren't on the ebook, etc. At least that's what I think they mean. Hurraaaays for getting to hold a physical copy of your book. That's always a thrill! Congrats on your continuing publishing empire.
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Post by Jeff Tanyard on Oct 22, 2019 7:24:02 GMT
dmayo You don't have to delist from amazon to get out of select. You just have to wait for your 90 day term to expire and be sure to untick the automatic enrollment box. Even if you delist your book, you're still supposed to wait until your select term expires before publishing elsewhere. But it's no big deal. I just wanted to make sure you knew that.
Bold type for emphasis.
Dmayo, unpublishing your ebooks from Amazon doesn't get you out of the KU/Select contract. If Amazon finds your books elsewhere before those books' KU terms expire, then you risk upsetting them.
You can go ahead and do the paperback stuff without any worries. The KU exclusivity only applies to ebooks.
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Post by davidvandyke on Oct 24, 2019 18:12:58 GMT
The only thing that mightr make sense to me is publishing the latest book in a series into KU for 90 days to fish out that pond, then going wide in all cases. This means the wide readers might have to wait or read on a Kindle app if they really want it now, but it does give the majority of KU readers a chance to get it into the queue. Even so, I'd not say that's optimal.
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Post by benziger on Jan 30, 2020 20:20:22 GMT
I want to do lulu, as well, because they have more options than trade paperback. And sell on my own website. Not being lazy is a good thing, I am trying to remind myself. Lulu will re-launch it's website in early 2020 (in a few weeks or in spring). A lot of new functions are allready implemented at xpress.lulu.com. If you never published with Lulu or paper books, you may like some advise from other (experimented) lulu authors from the Lulu forum. In the calculation you can see how much goes to the trade. But this also makes it possible to set the price and at the same time grant a generous direct sales discount for direct sales.
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Post by robertlcollins on Jan 31, 2020 14:27:30 GMT
Good to know about Lulu. I’m using them for my print books.
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