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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 14, 2019 2:36:50 GMT
www.ndybookstore.com/en www.ndybookstore.com/en/author-membership-plans.html www.sfbookreview.co.uk/main-page.html I saw this on Kboards, so thought I'd start a thread about it. An author called Tobias Root has opened his own online bookstore. He's got one for all books, NDY, and another for just Sci-Fi books. His big difference is that he allows authors to collect their customers email addresses. So it will be nice for listbuilding. I do believe he is making a mistake in trusting authors/marketers not to abuse this system, because they will. If he doesn't set up safeguards, the email addy of every customer his store gets will be splattered all over the black hat forums, being sold and shared for free. That's if he gets customers, of course. Not sure how good he is at traffic generation and convincing customers to buy their books there. I haven't seen anything special that's going to make customers flock to the store. He is super focused on making it nice for authors, but if you don't focus on the customer, there won't be any. So we will see how things go. 
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Post by kateelizabeth on Sept 14, 2019 21:09:47 GMT
I went ahead and put my Emily Padraic short romances up there on the NDY Bookstore under the Romance section. I mentioned on another site that I'm pretty shy, so there probably won't be much author interaction from me. But, it's another place to possibly sell my work. I do admire Tobias for working so hard on both sites. Time will tell if they're successful.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 15, 2019 1:01:37 GMT
It certainly can't hurt to put them up and see. He does say he has a marketing plan for when the time is right, so hopefully it all works out. It's awesome that he has the time and the money to create them. And his motives are definitely good. I went ahead and put my Emily Padraic short romances up there on the NDY Bookstore under the Romance section. I mentioned on another site that I'm pretty shy, so there probably won't be much author interaction from me. But, it's another place to possibly sell my work. I do admire Tobias for working so hard on both sites. Time will tell if they're successful. |
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Post by writeway on Sept 15, 2019 3:19:42 GMT
I saw the post too. I wish him well. There is a romance store like that called Eden Books. I have some books there but haven't sold anything yet. Some authors seem to be doing well there. I admit I don't promote that books are on Eden as much as I should. I am wide so I sell my books in as many places as possible. I also sell at my own Payhip store. Many wide authors sell from their websites and are making good money from it. Not saying they are outselling the retailers but there are readers who will buy from places other than the retailers. You just gotta know how to get them there. What's good about selling at smaller places or your site is you don't have to worry about pricematching so you can run specials and sales to get readers to buy from these places. Payhip and website stores can also be good for selling to your newsletter subscribers. Some authors sell their books early on their site before they release in stores for buzz. I use Payhip to provide sales by using coupons so I can offer some readers specials that aren't accessible to the public.
It can work if you make it work but you just have to have reasonable expectations. Some think that it's about competing with other stores. No. People who sell elsewhere or open up their own ebook stores are not doing it to compete with the biggies. It's another form of selling and another place to get your books out there. More and more authors are selling from their websites these days and if it didn't work, they wouldn't be doing it.
As for Tobias, have to wait and see but I am always cheering on another place to sell books as long as it the owner runs things well and authors don't get cheated like with what happened with All Romance Ebooks!
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Post by writeway on Sept 15, 2019 3:27:43 GMT
www.ndybookstore.com/en www.ndybookstore.com/en/author-membership-plans.html www.sfbookreview.co.uk/main-page.html I saw this on Kboards, so thought I'd start a thread about it. An author called Tobias Root has opened his own online bookstore. He's got one for all books, NDY, and another for just Sci-Fi books. His big difference is that he allows authors to collect their customers email addresses. So it will be nice for listbuilding. I do believe he is making a mistake in trusting authors/marketers not to abuse this system, because they will. If he doesn't set up safeguards, the email addy of every customer his store gets will be splattered all over the black hat forums, being sold and shared for free. That's if he gets customers, of course. Not sure how good he is at traffic generation and convincing customers to buy their books there. I haven't seen anything special that's going to make customers flock to the store. He is super focused on making it nice for authors, but if you don't focus on the customer, there won't be any. So we will see how things go. Uh, I admit I skimmed some of his post. He is allowing authors to collect email addresses? Do the customers have to agree to this because if not this is a huge gamble. Tobias could be in BIG trouble if authors and marketers start harvesting email addresses without the readers' permission. He could be putting his reputation and the reputation of this store at risk. Why in the world do authors need to have readers' emails through a retailer? This isn't a list-building service. I hope he has some safeguards in place too or he might end up in some big trouble if this gets abused. I would be livid if I was a reader and someone could get my email just from me buying a book. Even having the reader opt in is risky because people tend to forget what they sign up for. I think his Sci-Fi store will do good because from what I've seen the Sci-Fi readers are very supportive and so are the authors. As I said, we'll see but the email thing makes me nervous. I admit, I don't see anything special either. The site looks outdated kind of like an old Blogger template. Nothing that screams professional or as something readers will flock to but maybe he will make it work. |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 15, 2019 22:27:33 GMT
Well, and right now he is melting down on Kboards because he's exhausted himself working on this store that he created without getting any input from anyone. And now that authors have a chance to give feedback and suggest changes he can't handle it. Not the best mindset when you're running a business for the public. The public doesn't care how hard you've worked. All they care about is "what's in it for me?" Business isn't about friendship and magic.
Lots of readers have already said they wouldn't sign up if authors could get their email, and he won't let anyone join the forum he has to discuss the store without signing up for a full vender account. So that's become an issue, too. Not everyone wants to give him all their details just to have a look under the hood.
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Post by writeway on Sept 16, 2019 5:21:48 GMT
Well, and right now he is melting down on Kboards because he's exhausted himself working on this store that he created without getting any input from anyone. And now that authors have a chance to give feedback and suggest changes he can't handle it. Not the best mindset when you're running a business for the public. The public doesn't care how hard you've worked. All they care about is "what's in it for me?" Business isn't about friendship and magic. Lots of readers have already said they wouldn't sign up if authors could get their email, and he won't let anyone join the forum he has to discuss the store without signing up for a full vender account. So that's become an issue, too. Not everyone wants to give him all their details just to have a look under the hood. I hadn't checked his post on Kboards in a few days. I am going to look before it gets locked or something. ROFL! The mods always lock the good threads. That's a shame if Tobias has taken that attitude. I was wishing him well and trying to be positive. He should have been working with a group of authors and readers privately as a focus group THEN when things were ready, mention it to the public. Looks like he jumped into this not realizing all it would entail. |
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Post by writeway on Sept 16, 2019 5:24:41 GMT
He keeps saying this site will build a connection with the author and reader. Uh, sounds like Goodreads and a lot of other sites.
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Post by writeway on Sept 16, 2019 5:38:32 GMT
Okay, I went back and read the latest messages. I don't agree with how things were handled on both ends. For one, Tobias has to remember that people are going to give opinions when you ask and if you can't take them, don't ask. He did get a bit huffy in a few posts but he got back on track. I admit though, it handled himself better than most. Kboards has always been rude concerning things like this. They love to jump on a new business like ventures. Sometimes the business deserves it but it's been times when well-meaning people were felt the horrid wrath of the board's rudest people before they could even explain what the heck their business was. People on Kboards have a habit of looking at something once, not knowing much about it, and then condemning it even if it's not warranted. It's fine to disagree with something or to drill someone about his or her business, but some of those posts are just nasty. This is why so many people have left Kboards and it's lost a lot of respect. You got meanies over there who act like all they do is sit online and wait to be nasty. You can say what you don't like about Tobias' idea without being nasty. So while he did get a "little" unprofessional and snarky, I can see why. Just because someone is asking for opinions doesn't mean you have to be rude with your responses. The man is trying to do something positive. Indies whine all the time about a lack of diversity concerning retailers and how Amazon is taking over everything but the minute someone gets up and spends THEIR OWN MONEY to provide a service for indies, some do nothing but complain or be negative. Tobias isn't MAKING anyone join his site. If people feel that badly about it, don't join it. But why be nasty to him about it? You can state your case as to why you don't like it with respect. I too am not comfortable with the email thing as I mentioned before. I also misunderstood what he was doing before. I can't understand why he isn't handling the transactions and making it where the author has to. All he's doing is offering a website and the author is doing everything on their own. An author might as well be selling from their own site. I thought this was going to be like an actual retailer where Tobias would be handling the buying and selling but it's not. He's just set up a place for authors to have storefronts. They can do that on their own. Kboards though...ugh. It's the rudest forum around now. People go out of their way to be negative just by their posts. Like the man or woman who posted a thread about people bitching and whining. The poster called people pathetic, etc, but ignored the fact that their entire post was a whiny bitchfest. I remember when Kboards was a place where you could actually have meaningful, adult conversations. Those days are long gone. Even Absolute Write is nicer these days! Dare I say it!  |
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Post by Tobias Roote on Sept 16, 2019 10:31:23 GMT
"All he's doing is offering a website and the author is doing everything on their own. An author might as well be selling from their own site. I thought this was going to be like an actual retailer where Tobias would be handling the buying and selling but it's not."
But I am. The author puts up their books the same as on any platform. The difference is that I'm making the author a party in the sale process. They get to see each individual order as it comes in (the data, excepting the email is redacted). The author sees how many visits to each book page, the orders that aren't completed, the orders completed, and the revenue/income split. With the aid of coupons, discounts, unboxed titles and bundles the author can actually see the different marketing results and from that can extrapolate what methods work and which don't. Admitted, until it;s in a full and proper working environment I'm not 100% sure how everything is going to work. However, I have alternative plans to put into place and these will be discussed with the authors and implemented if and when they suit the needs of everyone better. I'm not about to discuss them before anyone even bothers to visit the site and test it as much of it will be managed in a private area.
One other issue and then I must press on with site building.
The matter of building a site for authors as opposed to readers. It makes sense when you consider it because if you see all the complaints about amazon, Goodreads, B&N and all the rest - they are consumer-led. NDY is author led, but in the end the consumer will have a great site to visit because the authors will be invested in it in a big way. Having the site built this way isn't wrong... it's just not usual which is why everyone can't understand it.
If you keep on doing the same thing day-after-day, don't be surprised when you keep getting the same result.
Regards
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 16, 2019 20:59:47 GMT
Hey Tobias, welcome to IAH. I didn't think you read over here. You are, of course welcome any time. What do you mean the email is redacted? Did you change that? Or did you mean mailing address? Seeing more data could be cool. I'm sure the really big sellers, if you could snag them, would appreciate that. I'm not sure I agree with your author first plan, but maybe you'll surprise me and your stores will be wildly successful. That would be the win-win for everyone because no one wins if they fail. Even BookBub got grilled on Kboards when it first came out, and now it's everyone's holy marketing grail. Change is hard, even when we say we want it. Thanks for dropping by and responding to the thread! |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 16, 2019 21:11:17 GMT
writeway The mods are actually modding a lot less than usual on Kboards, I've noticed. They just aren't around as much. I'm able to recognize bullying in some instances, but on Kboards for some reason it flies right over my head. I'm not sure why. Maybe because I read so many forums I've become forum-jaded at how people fight with each other over every little thing. I'm sure it is there because so many people have felt it and spoken up about it. I found the whining thread amusing. I think it may be because I don't post that much. I don't get personally involved in the long conflicts. I imagine if I did that then I'd feel it because I'd be involved. But as a mostly lurker I see it all from the outside, I suppose. Anyhoo, I hope Tobias's projects do well, and that someone popular jumps on board which will ease people's fears and make more authors willing to join in and give it a chance. And maybe Tobias will even be willing to compromise a little if he needs to. I imagine how the active majority feels, in the end, will decide if any compromises need to be made.
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Post by Tobias Roote on Sept 17, 2019 6:38:08 GMT
Kboards though...ugh. It's the rudest forum around now. This is true, and I don't handle myself well there at all.  I popped back in to reply to your comment on the email. "What do you mean the email is redacted?" I re-read my post and realised that, as usual, I've left off a comma. It should have read "([all] the data, excepting the email, is redacted)" The site has many ways in which to tie authors and readers together (besides the email) and I'm now looking at that to see if I can create a more trusting environment. I still don't understand what the fuss is about. I join oodles of cross-promotions, then get hit by authors NL's. I just slowly filter out the ones I don't want to follow (but not before I've checked out a few of their emails to see what kind of NL writer they are, and if I like them). I then whittle them down to a few and unsubscribe as necessary. I was with many of the daily book promotion subscriptions for a few years, but when they started adding 'book of the day' or 'you may be interested in this' - and it was not on my subscription list of genres I warned them by email, then unsubscribed if I got more. So, I understand the need to honour the wishes of readers. When I figure out a way of pleasing ALL the people ALL the time... I'll bottle it and make a fortune.  |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Sept 17, 2019 7:43:35 GMT
Thanks for coming back and clarifying, it makes much more sense with the comma.  I like that you're listening even though you don't understand. That's what a good leader does. I'm sure it's frustrating, working so hard, and having such good intentions, and then being met with hostility and suspicion. That is the way the business world works, but still, it's a rude awakening. And maybe you were thinking less of entering the business world and more that you were helping out your friends in the author community. One would not expect hostility and suspicion from one's own community. If that's how you were looking at it then I can understand your reactions a lot better. I can imagine it might feel like being blindsided by people you were only trying to help. And if that's not how you were thinking or felt, then I apologize for misrepresenting you. Kboards though...ugh. It's the rudest forum around now. This is true, and I don't handle myself well there at all. I popped back in to reply to your comment on the email. "What do you mean the email is redacted?" I re-read my post and realised that, as usual, I've left off a comma. It should have read "([all] the data, excepting the email, is redacted)" The site has many ways in which to tie authors and readers together (besides the email) and I'm now looking at that to see if I can create a more trusting environment. I still don't understand what the fuss is about. I join oodles of cross-promotions, then get hit by authors NL's. I just slowly filter out the ones I don't want to follow (but not before I've checked out a few of their emails to see what kind of NL writer they are, and if I like them). I then whittle them down to a few and unsubscribe as necessary. I was with many of the daily book promotion subscriptions for a few years, but when they started adding 'book of the day' or 'you may be interested in this' - and it was not on my subscription list of genres I warned them by email, then unsubscribed if I got more. So, I understand the need to honour the wishes of readers. When I figure out a way of pleasing ALL the people ALL the time... I'll bottle it and make a fortune. |
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Post by Tobias Roote on Sept 17, 2019 8:10:00 GMT
And maybe you were thinking less of entering the business world and more that you were helping out your friends in the author community. One would not expect hostility and suspicion from one's own community. Yes, I think you hit it on the head. A lot of my resentment has been because deep down that was what I felt. I have business experience, but in business I have never experienced this level of trolling or negation - anywhere. |
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