downtown
Smut Slingers
Smutslinger
The less better half of a two person publishing team
Posts: 57
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Post by downtown on Jul 1, 2019 19:09:05 GMT
Blown away by this. Would love to know more about the reasoning from Amazon's end (wouldn't we all...). But man...people thought AR was untouchable. Guess not.
I hear people saying it's a "perma-ban", but it's impossible to know what their sources are.
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Post by writeway on Jul 2, 2019 4:55:28 GMT
I only know what people are spreading around that they are possible scammers. I know that RR Banks is a stuffer who was banned before but somehow came back (like they all do). Don't know for sure what's going on but word in the Facebook groups is that these two were involved in shady tactics and this isn't just a coincidence.
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Post by thatwritergal on Jul 2, 2019 8:56:03 GMT
I'm wondering if they will be reinstated mainly because of how much revenue and income they bring in for Amazon.
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downtown
Smut Slingers
Smutslinger
The less better half of a two person publishing team
Posts: 57
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Post by downtown on Jul 2, 2019 15:16:46 GMT
Yeah, they all stuffed back when that was the thing. Some worse than others. AR and MF really push the limits of what Amazon accepts in the romance cats as well, so who knows what's going on.
People are out there claiming it's a serious, permanent ban and that they doing some shady marketing stuff, but god knows what you can actually believe. They definitely had "enemies" in the romance world.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 2, 2019 21:45:25 GMT
And that's the danger, when money's in the water authors turn into sharks, and so without proof all you know is what everyone is saying. Did someone get taken down falsely by a mob or has justice finally been served on a serial lawbreaker? I don't know anything about Alexa Riley other than her books sell a bunch. I hope whatever happens turns out for the best for everyone though!
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Post by writeway on Jul 2, 2019 22:34:34 GMT
I agree with those who say if they are scammers Amazon will allow them back to get that money. This is no secret. If Amazon really cared about scammers they would've done something a long time ago. They do these "once a year" sweeps to make people think they are doing stuff when they couldn't care less. And it sure is funny they do this right after that NYT article blasted them about all the scamming and fraud going on in their store. Makes me think this is just a way to fix their image with the public. But, we all know how Amazon is. They don't care and has allowed KU to become a cesspool because of this madness. No policing, no nothing.
The scammers are the ones who spend the most money on AMS ads and it's no secret that Amazon ads bring in tons of money for Amazon.
Amazon cares about money. Yes, all businesses do but I doubt other retailers would risk their rep to allow a bunch of scammers and criminals to take over their store. As long as KU is around, this will continue to happen.
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Post by writeway on Jul 2, 2019 22:47:15 GMT
I believe these authors must be doing something wrong because Amazon is not going to yank down any author's catalog based off of some people reporting an author who might be jealous or whatever. No. For them to yank down an account or close it or whatever, that means they've done some investigation or watching these people for a while. I don't give Amazon much credit when it comes to these scammers but I don't believe they will just take down an author's catalog based on what a few people said and not investigate it.
So while you do have folks who might wanna do things to harm another author, I would find it hard to believe that all it would take for Amazon to ban an author or take down their ENTIRE catalog is based off what some random person who came out of nowhere said. Amazon isn't dumb. They know that competitors might do this stuff. They aren't gonna just take what some person out of the blue says as gospel. They're gonna investigate and it's been proven they do because I've seen many who got banned and claimed they were innocent then the truth always came out and it turned out they had been breaking the TOS for a while, stuffing, clickfarming, or doing other shady things.
So, I believe Amazon took down these catalogs with intent. Not an accident like these authors always claim. Why, we don't exactly know but for Amazon to take down someone's entire catalog, there was a reason and it was a substantial reason.
Also, about people targeting authors to get their catalogs taken down out of jealousy, yeah, it could happen but it sure is funny that you got a lot of authors doing well in KU and they were never targeted. So that right there tells me that something is going on with these authors. If it was just someone being jealous of these people, then how come they are the only ones being targeted? Seems like any author doing well in KU would be. These aren't the only ones doing well in the program but they're the ones with missing catalogs or possibly banned, etc.
After folks get caught they always says, "It was a glitch", etc. Just like MSE who claimed to be innocent yet from what I understand still hasn't had his account reinstated. If you are so innocent, how come you can't go back into KU? Can MSE even sell on Amazon? Same with RH who we know wasn't innocent. She never got her account back. Amazon doesn't do this stuff without cause.
I could be wrong but I am going by what's commonsense to me and this doesn't seem like a glitch or accident or that these people are just innocent-as-pie and yet are the ONLY ones who got purged.
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Post by writeway on Jul 2, 2019 22:55:57 GMT
Another thing, I've seen people saying they are disappointed in Alexa because she was a "legitimate author" and all this stuff. I believe she was with Harlequin or something before, right? SO? There are MANY authors who were once legit who went to the dark side just to rise in the KU ranks and steal bonuses. I know some authors personally who I used to consider friends then realized they were doing the same shady crap the scammers are doing and now I am disgusted by them. Just because someone used to be legit (or you thought) doesn't mean they haven't changed into something else. Unfortunately, money does that to some people.
And how do people know who is legit or not? Did these people know any of these authors personally? Just because someone trade published at one time and you liked their books doesn't mean they can't be shady as hell. But yes, I've heard of many of these authors who I thought were upstanding people then came to find out they were cheating the whole time.
That's life.
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Post by writeway on Jul 3, 2019 17:07:29 GMT
Apparently, the authors were stuffing. One had four novels in the back of their books. Just what I said always happen. People wanna play the "I'm innocent game" then when they can't lie their way out of things or when they see people aren't stupid enough to believe their lies, they come clean.
What I don't get is, if these authors are so popular, why the heck weren't folks reporting them for stuffing? I mean, how can they still be getting away with this? OR, have people been reporting them all along and Amazon didn't take action until now because these "authors" brought them money? Hmm.
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Post by dormouse on Jul 3, 2019 21:57:37 GMT
Now the KB thread is locked, and there's a bit of heat at WS. Various people saying it wasn't stuffing, DG twitting that it is. Some argument for categorising erotica as romance and always(?) needing reminders to switch it out.
I'm not sure I care what the reasons are. Amazon will never say and transgressors can never be trusted to tell the truth about their activities. I dislike many of the company's working practices but, in general, I feel it is under-active in banning rather than over-active.
Too many people living close to the edge trying to game the system with no concern for readers, the functioning of the marketplace or authors who stick to the rules. Temptation fostered by Amazon being so lax.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 6, 2019 1:36:02 GMT
Haha, so much drama. I've been too busy to participate in any of it. All I know I learned from this thread. It does seem likely that if you are permabanned from amazon, and not banned, then reinstated that you prolly were doing something wrong. Amazon does shoot first, ask questions later, but they do ask questions, if you bug them enough about it. And the trad pub industry is anything but legit. That industry is just as full of scammers and cheats and liars as anywhere else. Just because someone plays a nice person on the internet doesn't mean they aren't capable of making bad decisions.
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Post by possiblyderanged on Jul 7, 2019 22:40:00 GMT
I saw it from someone in a private group more private than the one I saw this in) that it had to do with ignoring warnings from Amazon. About what, it's unclear, but stuffing was mentioned, as was putting erotica in contemporary romance.
I've heard several things, including botting/manipulating page reads. Same old, same old, in other words. People always think they're smarter than Amazon and can get away with things. Oops.
No one is too big to fail at Amazon. Screw up, get banned.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 9, 2019 20:55:17 GMT
I don't get ignoring warnings from amazon. I also don't get stuffing, or miscatting, or purposely publishing stuff you know amazon doesn't like. If you want to publish on amazon, follow their rules. You don't have to like them. But just play by the rules, and write good books, and you'll be fine. Start doing stupid stuff to try and scam more money and risk losing it all. The only secret group I'm part of is my FB group. But it's only secret to prevent spam requests of which I was getting a lot. I'm not cool enough to be in the sooper seekrit groups.
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downtown
Smut Slingers
Smutslinger
The less better half of a two person publishing team
Posts: 57
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Post by downtown on Jul 9, 2019 22:52:55 GMT
I don't get ignoring warnings from amazon. I also don't get stuffing, or miscatting, or purposely publishing stuff you know amazon doesn't like. Money makes risks more acceptable, and no doubt they were making a lot of it. I would love the truth to come out though because I haven't seen them stuffing since the original stuff-gate, and I can't imagine Amazon would pull them for miscatting. Unless the miscatting is them publishing "erotica" as "romance" as some have been suggesting and Amazon repeatedly asking them to stop.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 12, 2019 20:30:03 GMT
I just saw an ad on Facebook from Alexa about her banning. It popped up for me as an ad, but she also has it pinned to the top of her page. (What the fuck with the longass url?) Here is a tiny one. tinyurl.com/y52xcjvk
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Jul 12, 2019 20:55:30 GMT
I've been reading the comments, there are 128 of them. Many of her fans have taken up the call and contacted amazon and they're being told that Alexa removed her books herself. But I don't really know why customer service minions would be given private details about bannings and things. My biggest takeaway from the comments section was why doesn't she just go wide? She seems to have plenty of fans. Sure, you may make less money, especially if you've been scamming, but at least you'd be making something, and your fans would be happy.
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Post by possiblyderanged on Jul 22, 2019 17:06:59 GMT
From what I understand, AR is going wide. I think only her so far, but I'm a little behind. So, if she's going wide, that means there's no going back for her at Amazon, or not easily. Maybe she got the same deal MSE got, that she could get a regular publisher (not a friend pretending, MSE!) and be on Amazon, but otherwise not.
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downtown
Smut Slingers
Smutslinger
The less better half of a two person publishing team
Posts: 57
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Post by downtown on Jul 23, 2019 15:56:00 GMT
From what I understand, AR is going wide. I think only her so far, but I'm a little behind. So, if she's going wide, that means there's no going back for her at Amazon, or not easily. Maybe she got the same deal MSE got, that she could get a regular publisher (not a friend pretending, MSE!) and be on Amazon, but otherwise not. Yeah, AR is already back on Amazon, with a publisher. Technically they're going "wide", but this is about getting back into the amazon storefront.
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Post by possiblyderanged on Aug 6, 2019 10:40:58 GMT
And from what I've read, AR is gone again. Apparently Entangled got some kind of nasty gram from Amazon, and the books were 404'd. AR may have lied/glossed over some kind of legal language about why they got banned. It's causing some trouble for Entangled.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Aug 7, 2019 7:36:05 GMT
Don’t game. Don’t lie. Keep on eating KU pie. Break the rules. You will weep. Top dog numbers you can’t keep.
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downtown
Smut Slingers
Smutslinger
The less better half of a two person publishing team
Posts: 57
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Post by downtown on Aug 14, 2019 16:20:45 GMT
And from what I've read, AR is gone again. Apparently Entangled got some kind of nasty gram from Amazon, and the books were 404'd. AR may have lied/glossed over some kind of legal language about why they got banned. It's causing some trouble for Entangled. Oh yeah, they were gone within hours of launching the new books. Look at their twitter feed and their book launch tweet is filled with replies from people complaining they can't see the books. Interesting to hear about Entangled. I'm amazed they didn't have the go-ahead from Amazon first. What a shit show.
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Post by davidvandyke on Aug 15, 2019 18:50:09 GMT
Another thing, I've seen people saying they are disappointed in Alexa because she was a "legitimate author" and all this stuff. I believe she was with Harlequin or something before, right? SO? There are MANY authors who were once legit who went to the dark side just to rise in the KU ranks and steal bonuses. I know some authors personally who I used to consider friends then realized they were doing the same shady crap the scammers are doing and now I am disgusted by them. Just because someone used to be legit (or you thought) doesn't mean they haven't changed into something else. Unfortunately, money does that to some people. And how do people know who is legit or not? Did these people know any of these authors personally? Just because someone trade published at one time and you liked their books doesn't mean they can't be shady as hell. But yes, I've heard of many of these authors who I thought were upstanding people then came to find out they were cheating the whole time. That's life. Unfortunately, the way KU is set up it's easy for those of less-than-sterling character to tell themselves their cheating "isn't hurting anyone." It's like the psychological studies that show few people would steal $1000 from one person, but many more would steal $1 from 1000 people. They convince themselves the victims won't miss the money. Without strong rules, laws and consequences, more people than we probably think would turn evil--usually in a step-by-step process, not all at once, a process of self-justification. How many times have you heard or seen a situation where "everybody's doing it" is the justification for wrongdoing?
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Post by davidvandyke on Aug 15, 2019 18:55:38 GMT
And from what I've read, AR is gone again. Apparently Entangled got some kind of nasty gram from Amazon, and the books were 404'd. AR may have lied/glossed over some kind of legal language about why they got banned. It's causing some trouble for Entangled. I'm happy Entangled got slapped, as long as it was not a disaster for them. Bans need to sting, for the banned and for those who would help the banned evade the sanctions--wittingly or unwittingly. Clearly they didn't do their due diligence, and they should be slapped for that. Hopefully it's a message to other legit publishers not to enable cheaters. I'm not saying AR shouldn't be allowed to go through a publisher and sell their books retail. If they want to go wide and compete legitimately, more power to them. There are few ways to abuse straightforward retail sales. It's KU that is exploitable, and the banned should be denied access to KU, no matter by what route.
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Post by possiblyderanged on Aug 31, 2019 12:28:55 GMT
The deal with Amazon is that when they say books can go through a publisher, they mean an actual publisher, not someone who's just going to upload the same books that Amazon booted. Entangled has said they were acting as a distributor, which is not allowed. Can't do it through D2D or any other aggregator, can't do it through a "publisher". The books were supposed to be put inline with Amazon rules, and they weren't.
Of course, this is all coming from what others are saying, though some of them are in private groups I don't belong to and are seeing emails that can't be physically shared. So, could someone be saying something... less than true? I suppose. I tend to trust the couple of people who've seen these emails, who've been in groups with Entangled authors and have heard what's going on.
A lot of people are defending AR, are saying that no one should be allowed to tell women what they can read, that nothing scammy or bad was going on. I tend to think Amazon doesn't make mistakes this big. I don't think they did with Chance Carter, or Micheal Scott Earle, either. Those were all "big" authors, making loads of money and ranking high in the store. What would it gain Amazon to knock them down, if something -- or probably a lot of somethings -- wasn't going on?
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