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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 13, 2018 23:56:12 GMT
Have you ever not killed a character that needed to die because you were too attached to them and had it ruin the integrity of the story? Have you ever killed a character and then regretted it? How do you make the important decisions about who dies and who lives to see another day? If you have any thoughts on this topic you now have a place to share them.  I was watching a music video that is one of my TUOK videos and it made me realize that I need to kill some of my characters even though it makes me really sad. You can't write a war story and only kill off side characters that nobody cares about. |
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Post by Jeff Tanyard on Oct 14, 2018 2:09:26 GMT
My advice: Never kill off the coolest character. I don't care how much you feel like that character is overshadowing the MC. If you kill off the coolest character, then the MC won't matter much anyway, because your book is no longer cool.
I came to this conclusion, by the way, after reading a series where the coolest character was killed off. The series just wasn't fun anymore after that.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 2:19:29 GMT
Never kill Zathras. Gotcha.  |
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Post by Jeff Tanyard on Oct 14, 2018 4:00:33 GMT
Never kill Zathras. Gotcha.
Zathras have sad life. Probably have sad death. But at least there is symmetry.  |
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Post by corabuhlert on Oct 14, 2018 4:57:32 GMT
I try to limit on page killing, whether its faceless minions or named characters, but sometimes it cannot be avoided. And I did blow up a whole planet with 2 billion people in a recent novella.
One thing that does bother me is if there is a character, e.g. a family member of the protagonist, who died as part of the backstory, and suddeny I write a prequel and the character I know will die is a POV character. I didn't have a problem killing off these people while they were just background detail, but once I write scenes from their POV, they suddenly become real people to me and I hate killing them off, though I know that I have to. It's even worse if I get to write their death.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 5:21:49 GMT
I try to limit on page killing, whether its faceless minions or named characters, but sometimes it cannot be avoided. And I did blow up a whole planet with 2 billion people in a recent novella. One thing that does bother me is if there is a character, e.g. a family member of the protagonist, who died as part of the backstory, and suddeny I write a prequel and the character I know will die is a POV character. I didn't have a problem killing off these people while they were just background detail, but once I write scenes from their POV, they suddenly become real people to me and I hate killing them off, though I know that I have to. It's even worse if I get to write their death. You don't cackle with glee like GRRM? I knew I liked you! |
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Post by prolificwriter on Oct 14, 2018 6:34:10 GMT
I think in TV shows, it’s usually the sidekicks that are more interesting than the leads. At least I find myself caring about them more.
As for writing, since I mostly write fantasy of one kind or another, if I regret killing someone, I can always bring them back. But I’m not in the habit of killing cool characters (unless I already have a way for them to come back), so it’s never been a problem for me. The only time I really plan on killing a lead character is at the very end of a series. In my urban fantasy series, I know exactly how it will end: one of the MCs will die for good. But it’s going to be for the greater good, which will be in line with his character.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 6:38:28 GMT
Many moons ago I had the idea of writing a series where the heroes lose and the villain wins, and one of the main heroes commits suicide at the very end after getting tricked by the villain and accidentally causing the death of all his friends. But I was in totes love with the villain so I wasn't thinking too clearly.  Here is a fun article that might help anyone looking to whack some characters soon. www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/kill-a-character/# |
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Post by prolificwriter on Oct 14, 2018 6:47:47 GMT
But I was in totes love with the villain so I wasn't thinking too clearly. Which reminds me, I usually root for villains in TV shows and movies! They’re just so much more fun! (And a blast to write as well.) And sometimes, they even have reasons that make perfect sense, and make the hero of the show look like the bad guy for trying to stop them. (*cough*Merlin*cough*) I know in Game of Thrones, most of the characters I root for are considered “villains” by other people. And the character that I most hate is the one most people like, even though he’s an idiot. You know which one I’m talking about, right? Jon Snow |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 7:27:48 GMT
But I was in totes love with the villain so I wasn't thinking too clearly. Which reminds me, I usually root for villains in TV shows and movies! They’re just so much more fun! (And a blast to write as well.) And sometimes, they even have reasons that make perfect sense, and make the hero of the show look like the bad guy for trying to stop them. (*cough*Merlin*cough*) I know in Game of Thrones, most of the characters I root for are considered “villains” by other people. And the character that I most hate is the one most people like, even though he’s an idiot. You know which one I’m talking about, right? Jon Snow Haha I quit watching GOT around season 4 or 5. I don't remember which. I was Team Lannister all the way and I hated the Starks with a passion. Though Arya is cool, and in the first book, Sansa has the best line. But yeah, I tend to root for the villains, too, depending on who the heroes are. Morgana was totes the best character in Merlin, and certainly the one I rooted for. In Babylon 5 I root for everyone equally. But B5 had no true villains or heroes. Everyone was shades of grey just doing their best to make the universe a better place. One of the things that tends to bother me with heroes is they're always so self-righteous and judgy of the villains. And I don't always understand their moral codes. They have rules that they think make them better than everyone else, but oftentimes they're just one step away from being a villain themselves. That sort of deep character examination and comparison between hero and antagonist always fascinates me. |
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Post by prolificwriter on Oct 14, 2018 8:35:51 GMT
Haha I quit watching GOT around season 4 or 5. I don't remember which. I was Team Lannister all the way and I hated the Starks with a passion. Though Arya is cool, and in the first book, Sansa has the best line. OMG! Did you miss the best part of the show (Dany riding her dragon)? I’m Team Lannister as well. Cersei is my #1. I love Melisandre. Dany, of course, but mainly because of the dragons. Jaime is cool. So is Arya. Sansa has grown a lot and I like her now as well. Theon Greyjoy. Lord Varys. Those are my main faves. I don’t like Tyrion because he’s a traitor to his family. lol Loved her. The thing I didn’t like was how they suddenly turned her “evil” between seasons. The one I was really rooting for in season 1 was Nimueh. She was completely right and I can’t believe they tried to make her out to be the villain. She was trying to kill the villain! Another thing that pissed me off was what Merlin did to his own father. It’s like the writers were purposely trying to make me hate the main character! In the later seasons he became more likable, until the whole Morgana thing. But I will say, I loved the ending of the show. Except that stupid truck. Could have done without that! But it was worth it to see Arthur bite the dust. I really must check out Babylon 5. It sounds really good! |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 16:22:35 GMT
I did love the dragons and Dany, too. I also loved Melisandre, and I used to ship Cersei and Margeary together. I had to hate Margaery for my Queen's sake, but I secretly loved her. And her grandmother, too. So I guess I didn't hate all the good guys. And I still love Tyrion. I know Cersei hates him because a fortune teller said he was going to kill her one day and if he ever does that I'll have to hate him. I haven't kept up so don't know if he has or not. But other than that I love him, too. He's well read, sarcastic, and quippy! I don't recall a lot of Merlin. It's been years since I last watched, so I don't remember Nimueh. To me, I never actually saw Morgana as evil. I saw her as protecting herself and her sisters in an enthusiastic way. One hero character from Legend of the Seeker that I actually did love was Kahlan Amnell. Sooooo beautiful. I fell immediately under her spell, she didn't even have to confess me. Of course her character definitely wasn't a traditional hero, either. Many shades of gray there in that world. And I should have loved Cara, but I fell for Denna, and I wanted more of her. So I felt like Kahlan did when Cara first started hanging around. Babylon 5 is really great if you can get past the dated special effects, the lackluster acting of some of the guest stars, enjoy a more theatrical form of acting for the main cast (lots of monologues - really good one), and be able to patiently sit through the slow setup of season one. By the end of season one you should at least be intrigued, I was hooked, and then season 2-4 just get progressively better at an alarming rate. Then season 5 is a long slow, goodbye, but it does wrap up a few important plot lines so you have to watch it at least one. The movies are fun, especially "In the Beginning." If you start season one and find yourself struggling to continue, you might want to give that movie a try because it's an example of the best of the series. Though it does spoil all the surprises of season one. And the best part of Babylon 5 beside the amazing character arcs is the foreshadowing. When you go back and watch the second, third, fortieth time you always find something new you hadn't noticed before. The Gathering is the two-hour pilot movie but you don't need to watch it. I waited until I'd seen the show three times. It's more of a "true fans love this" than something for everyone. And most of the characters in the pilot don't continue on for the series anyway since there was a whole year in between the pilot and "Midnight on the firing Line." |
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Post by prolificwriter on Oct 14, 2018 20:42:30 GMT
I liked Margaery and her grandmother as well, though of course I was always on Cersei’s side. It’s been a while since I’ve seen Merlin as well. The main parts I remember are the ones that pissed me off. I didn’t see Morgana as evil either, but she did some pretty awful things to her former friend Gwen. I love Legend of the Seeker! One of my all-time favorite shows! I actually liked pretty much everyone on that show, heroes and villains. Book readers seem to hate it, so I’m glad I never read the books. Babylon 5 is starting to sound like a lot of work.  I will say that I never really rewatch shows (unless they’re comedy reruns) and I’ve never reread a fiction book either. I always find it strange when people say they reread the Harry Potter series every year. I always think of all the new books they could have read in that time! |
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on Oct 14, 2018 21:56:29 GMT
Babylon 5 isn't just a show it's a lifelong commitment. Well, for me it did cos I'm a fanatic. I don't usually rewatch shows, either, but I do B5. It's everything I strive for TUOK to be and more. But normal people just watch it and move on with their lives, I guess. I rewatch Legend of the Seeker sometimes, too. I also haven't read the books cos I'm just not that into child rape scenes. The first GOT book was enough for me. But the show was great. It should have had more seasons! |
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Post by possiblyderanged on Oct 15, 2018 14:02:07 GMT
Have you ever not killed a character that needed to die because you were too attached to them and had it ruin the integrity of the story?
Not yet. Probably will at some point.
Have you ever killed a character and then regretted it?
No. I was a bit sad that these two little kids in one short story became zombies, but well. Rule of Writing #1.
How do you make the important decisions about who dies and who lives to see another day?
Story trumps all. Rule for Writing #1.
On to other things, I liked Jon Snow and didn't consider him a villain. He was born to a situation that gave him little control over his life, and he made the best of it. Out of the other characters, I like Tyrion and Ned. Ned didn't deserve what he got, in my opinion. Of course, I don't watch the show, only read the books (and likely won't read any more of them, because really, GRRM? I'll find some spoiler site to see if Jon is really dead.).
I tend to like the secondary characters of a lot of shows. I liked Rufus on "Timeless". He was the only "real" character. There's a few others, which I'm drawing a blank for right now (it sucks getting old, people).
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Post by prolificwriter on Oct 15, 2018 15:20:13 GMT
I liked Jon Snow and didn't consider him a villain. I’ve never heard anyone call him a villain. He has the typical hero arc that you see a million times in fantasy. That’s one of the reasons I hate him. That and his stupidity. I haven’t read the books, but in the show, Ned Stark was an absolute idiot. I’m not sure what he thought would happen after he had that talk with Cersei... I liked Timeless. I don’t really have a favorite character on that show. Flynn, Lucy, and Jiya would probably be the ones I like the most. I don’t consider Rufus to be a secondary character. He’s definitely one of the main characters in my opinion. |
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Post by kateelizabeth on Oct 15, 2018 16:36:33 GMT
I cried when I killed off a couple of important characters in one tangent of the fantasy series I worked on years ago. Since I've never actually finished said series, they may end up living after all.
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I will say that I never really rewatch shows (unless they’re comedy reruns) and I’ve never reread a fiction book either. I always find it strange when people say they reread the Harry Potter series every year. I always think of all the new books they could have read in that time!
