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Post by dormouse on May 10, 2019 8:46:03 GMT
I've not watched any GoT at all. 1. I read one of the books once I tried reading one of the books once and gradually stopped reading after one or two hundred pages. 2. I'm uncomfortable with adaptions from books, especially when the original author hasn't finished all the books. 3. If it's one story, I prefer to see them all close together so that I can follow easily. LotR was OK because I knew it so well (I understood why Tom was omitted, but still think it was a mistake); several times I have watched the extended versions either one after the other or on successive days. With all the fans hyping, I'd decided that I would despite there apparently being more gore, flesh and nastiness than I'm comfortable with. But only when it it had finished and I knew it was OK.
I don't mind endings that frustrate expectations; I do mind endings that are just wrong. Occasionally I will read the end of a book, if I have started to mistrust the author's ability to complete the story satisfactorily. Some genres have fixed expectations and genre fiction expectations are more set than literary fiction, but however preordained the conclusion it still needs to be carried off satisfactorily. A bad ending ruins the whole book - and it's too late to give the book up.
I'm reading the hoo-ha over GoT now; I'll reserve all opinion on whether I'll eventually watch it until it has actually ended (easy for me with no investment) but it strikes me that endings are an under-discussed area of craft. My observation is that TV tends to trite, emotionally unsatisfying endings that are never quite right. I saw occasional episodes of The Sopranos but the acclamation for the conclusion (whatever it was) makes me somewhat keen to watch the series, but also highlights low expectations. Even books where the happy-ever-after ending is fixed there are many bad and artificial ways of getting there. and that is always irritating.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on May 11, 2019 7:34:54 GMT
Endings are really important. Fluck those up and you can ruin the entire story. With TV series, the episodes are usually written one at a time with very little planning in between, so it's easy for the producers to get to the end and have no idea how to close it. And then you have Babylon 5 where Joe knew the ending from the beginning and so everything in the story was always leading there. Even with all the trapdoors needing to be pulled. He was able to give a satisfactory and heart-rending finale that I dare any fan to watch without crying. It's perfect and it's also a bit contrived and doesn't make a lot of sense. After watching for the first time I had to immediately go back and rewatch the entire series cos I was so sad and depressed. The final episode of Boy Meets World was also really sad and made me cry. Just cos it was ending, not because everyone on screen was dead or anything. The ending of Farscape, the original one when they got canceled was hilariously horrible, and also sort of perfect. But then the actual ending when they got their mini series was EVERYTHING!!!!! It was so dark and sooooo emotional and soooo good. Best ending ever!!!!! The Star Wars Novel, "Lost Stars" was the absolute best star wars book I'd ever read until the ending when it doesn't end just stops cos either the author got tired of writing or ran out of words. You can't just stop a story. You must conclude it. I was soooo angry over it for like a year or more. It was ridiculous, but the book was AMAZING before that. And I think because it was so good all the way up to when it just dropped off a cliff, it felt like a betrayal of the author because I knew she was capable of much better. I will never ever ever ever ever read another book by J**********t after I read one of her books and the ending made me so mad I still have an irrational hatred of her. It was one of those shock endings that undoes every inch of progress and character development that we got through the story. Just upchucked and threw it all away. Rendered the entire book meaningless and left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. It also made me question the moral of the story and what the ending seemed to be suggesting was abhorrent to me. I don't even care if the ending was realistic. Yes, I know real life sucks and horrible things happen, but I don't read books for reality. So I now know to stay away from that author. You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to read another one of her books. The Lost finale angered a lot of people, but I didn't mind it. Mainly because I quit watching when they killed Juliet , and only returned to see her and Danielle again. The Suliet candy machine scene really hit me in the feels. But if I had been a forum following spoiler junkie from the beginning, instead of only really liking season 3-4, then I prolly would have been mad, too. Especially when the creators lie to their fans about what's going on. I quit watching GOT several years ago. Don't even remember when I quit, so I don't actually care how it ends. The books were way, waaay, waaaaaaaay too long. I forced myself through the first one, and enjoyed some parts, endured others. Couldn't get through any others. The pedo rape scene was pretty bad though. I was glad they aged the characters up for the series.
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Post by dormouse on May 11, 2019 10:34:05 GMT
That's a powerful post! I can't match that.
I don't watch much TV and when I do it is usually watching what someone else has on (while I'm reading). I have seem some Babylon 5 episodes and it seemed interesting but quite involved and I think I missed most of the current because I wasn't a regular. I saw rather more of Farscape and thought that there was a clarity of perspective that was fresh and interesting - possibly because it had such strong Australian roots; I did get fed up with the Crichton/Scorpius arc. It's on my list of programs I'd like to watch in order, but that list is quite a bit longer than the amount of time I spend watching.
I did think that there was a proper satisfying climax to HP. Presumably JKR been working up to it for many years and she'd've been as devastated as everyone else if it hadn't been.
Another series I have put on my watch list is Fleabag. I've seen none of it but the media is full of how right the ending is (just two series; 12 episodes in total - a writer's concept not that of a production company), and the actor/writer seems now to be treated as a genius who can create real characters for women. She also did the screenplay for Killing Eve and has been pulled in to do some work on the new Bond film.
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Post by dormouse on May 11, 2019 11:47:20 GMT
one of those shock endings that undoes every inch of progress and character development that we got through the story. Just upchucked and threw it all away. Rendered the entire book meaningless and left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. It also made me question the moral of the story and what the ending seemed to be suggesting was abhorrent to me. I think shock endings can be good but it isn't easy to get them right. There has to be a purpose, and the story before then has to be preparation for the ending. Just upending the apparent arc is not good enough. And the author/reader contract has to permit it; literary fiction usually does, genre fiction often doesn't. I'm usually OK with shock endings, but sometimes I will peek at the end to reassure myself because I don't want to plough on if it ends badly. Depends on my mood.
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Post by dormouse on May 11, 2019 11:57:44 GMT
The Star Wars Novel, "Lost Stars" was the absolute best star wars book I'd ever read until the ending when it doesn't end just stops cos either the author got tired of writing or ran out of words. You can't just stop a story. You must conclude it. I was soooo angry over it for like a year or more. It was ridiculous, but the book was AMAZING before that. And I think because it was so good all the way up to when it just dropped off a cliff, it felt like a betrayal of the author because I knew she was capable of much better. My guess is that this is common. Sometimes the writer manages a slightly rushed formulaic ending, sometimes it's a disappointing trite finish, sometimes they don't bother with the final book because the series wasn't popular enough. It's not surprising, especially in genre fiction where the writer is pushing themselves to pump out a book every few months. It may be unavoidable for pantsers who have no idea where their book is going. (Surely they have some idea?) Planners will have their outline, but the quality disappears when they tire and lose their passion for the story or characters.
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Post by K'Sennia Visitor on May 12, 2019 3:29:02 GMT
Shock endings are the point in horror, so I like them there. The book I read could have been literary fiction, I don't know. I only chose it because they were making a movie with an actress I liked. The movie was much better cos they fixed the end. I'm not really a fan of sad dramas and love stories where people die and there is no HEA. I am fine with death in horror and monster movies. You're supposed to feel bad after watching a horror movie, and there's just something about the genre that I'm okay with it. But I can't take it in dramas. If you make me care about these characters I want them to live happily-ever-after, dammit!
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Post by dormouse on May 12, 2019 8:49:10 GMT
I've never even got on with horror Sometimes I need HEA, sometimes less so. Many of the great works with sad endings have an air of inevitability about them - so no shock there. Sometimes it's the switch I struggle with. In the Name of the Wind, the switch from the family caravan to alone in the city to entering the university were all a bit of a struggle for me and meant I put it down and only returned to it some weeks/months later. Sometimes I think it is about the author's skill. Even a shock, downbeat ending should leave you with something that's positive. I can remember an SF short. Setting would be called dystopian now. Hero rescues girl/family; hero makes everything OK again; hero moves on; girl/family unrescued. Deliberate shock ending. I can understand why it was done - shorts often have twists or shock endings because there's not much room to work in; and the shortness limits the amount of investment in the characters - but I still think it a cheap device.
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Endings
May 12, 2019 21:16:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by K'Sennia Visitor on May 12, 2019 21:16:25 GMT
Horror is something I can only take so much of it, but I do enjoy it. Psychological mostly, not slasher or gore so much. Supernatural horror is my favorite. Although I tend to want more depth to the supernatural creatures which is why spec fic is my very favorite!
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